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	<title>Comments on: Cowtown blues</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.greaterfool.ca/2008/06/03/cowtown-blues/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2008/06/03/cowtown-blues/</link>
	<description>Book and Weblog - Authored by Garth Turner</description>
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		<title>By: redcurlygirl</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2008/06/03/cowtown-blues/comment-page-2/#comment-1771</link>
		<dc:creator>redcurlygirl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 23:45:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=253#comment-1771</guid>
		<description>Wow! reading this are we ever glad that we RENTED in Calgary for now..read Garth&#039;s book after we sold in Toronto and husband got transferred here..we realized that Calgary is vastly overrated when it comes to housing prices..there can&#039;t be that many people in a city of one million that can afford $400+ mortgages for something basic! We sold off one car and downsized as Garth suggested and moved inner city, renting a great townhouse and taking public transit..saving tons for now! And our &quot;equity&quot; from the sale ( 240000 ) sitting nicely in the bank making interest. Our rental costs are great and we ready to enjoy the good life out here being debt and mortgage free! As Garth said , you should NEVER have 90% of all your money in one investment and a home is just that..as long as we&#039;re making money ( equity) one way or the other we&#039;ll be fine for retirement time,now to bank the difference. Wow renting is stress free , no stress with rising interest rates, no interest! except for out money making money, no high maintenance costs and no loss when we leave in a couple of years!  plus no extra fees except utilities and   rent! Loving it..thanks Garth for turning around our perspective of what home ownership ( major debt!) is!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow! reading this are we ever glad that we RENTED in Calgary for now..read Garth&#8217;s book after we sold in Toronto and husband got transferred here..we realized that Calgary is vastly overrated when it comes to housing prices..there can&#8217;t be that many people in a city of one million that can afford $400+ mortgages for something basic! We sold off one car and downsized as Garth suggested and moved inner city, renting a great townhouse and taking public transit..saving tons for now! And our &#8220;equity&#8221; from the sale ( 240000 ) sitting nicely in the bank making interest. Our rental costs are great and we ready to enjoy the good life out here being debt and mortgage free! As Garth said , you should NEVER have 90% of all your money in one investment and a home is just that..as long as we&#8217;re making money ( equity) one way or the other we&#8217;ll be fine for retirement time,now to bank the difference. Wow renting is stress free , no stress with rising interest rates, no interest! except for out money making money, no high maintenance costs and no loss when we leave in a couple of years!  plus no extra fees except utilities and   rent! Loving it..thanks Garth for turning around our perspective of what home ownership ( major debt!) is!</p>
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		<title>By: Calgary rip-off</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2008/06/03/cowtown-blues/comment-page-2/#comment-1768</link>
		<dc:creator>Calgary rip-off</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 21:16:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=253#comment-1768</guid>
		<description>Renters have all the cards in their hands.  As a renter I can just sit and wait...I&#039;ll be laughing when the market crashes.  Not if, when...I dont have any committment to staying in Calgary other than my job, which in healthcare is a necessity.  Oil is increasingly unstable...watch out!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Renters have all the cards in their hands.  As a renter I can just sit and wait&#8230;I&#8217;ll be laughing when the market crashes.  Not if, when&#8230;I dont have any committment to staying in Calgary other than my job, which in healthcare is a necessity.  Oil is increasingly unstable&#8230;watch out!!!</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2008/06/03/cowtown-blues/comment-page-2/#comment-1748</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 03:33:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=253#comment-1748</guid>
		<description>I think Vultur is too optimistic about Calgary. Nothing is forever, including high oil prices.The high oil prices are fueling a great deal of cost push inflation and wages are for sure not keeping pace. It seems pure simplistic fantasy to believe that Calgary will be a go-go oil boomtown in 40 years when families have finally paid off their McMansions and McCondos.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Vultur is too optimistic about Calgary. Nothing is forever, including high oil prices.The high oil prices are fueling a great deal of cost push inflation and wages are for sure not keeping pace. It seems pure simplistic fantasy to believe that Calgary will be a go-go oil boomtown in 40 years when families have finally paid off their McMansions and McCondos.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave in Calgary</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2008/06/03/cowtown-blues/comment-page-2/#comment-1740</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave in Calgary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 17:40:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=253#comment-1740</guid>
		<description>CALGARY, June 2 /CNW/ -: 

* Single family Calgary metro new listings added for the month of May totaled 3,432.... Single family Calgary metro sales for the month of May came in at 1,368...

(ouch)

* Calgary metro condominium new listings added in May 2008 were 1,538... Condominium sales for the month of May were 577

(ouch)

CREB(R) President, Ed Jensen:

&quot;Now is not the time to wait until the sale is over and then decide to buy&quot;

(the sale hasn&#039;t started yet Ed, but thanks for publishing the stats so we know the clearance sale is coming)

&quot;The conditions today are perfect for buyers. We have a surplus of homes on the market&quot;

(perfect to wait... not only is there a 5 figure surplus, but your own stats show its getting worse. Oh, conditions are perfect for buyers... perfect to wait for a year for the wheels to come off this mess. Or do what Ed want... buy into a surplus market before the price drops... good one)

&quot;A professional REALTOR(R) understands what is going
on in the market and can help the buyer make an informed buying decision&quot;

(that&#039;s right... buy now, buy tomorrow, buy yesterday, buy again, buy, buy, buy, buy... great professional help)

&quot;The Calgary Real Estate Board is a professional body of 5,752 licensed brokers and registered associates&quot;

(Over 5000? Wow... I guess we have to continue buying at any price, at any stage of the cycle, or these folks won&#039;t have a pot to piss in).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CALGARY, June 2 /CNW/ -: </p>
<p>* Single family Calgary metro new listings added for the month of May totaled 3,432&#8230;. Single family Calgary metro sales for the month of May came in at 1,368&#8230;</p>
<p>(ouch)</p>
<p>* Calgary metro condominium new listings added in May 2008 were 1,538&#8230; Condominium sales for the month of May were 577</p>
<p>(ouch)</p>
<p>CREB(R) President, Ed Jensen:</p>
<p>&#8220;Now is not the time to wait until the sale is over and then decide to buy&#8221;</p>
<p>(the sale hasn&#8217;t started yet Ed, but thanks for publishing the stats so we know the clearance sale is coming)</p>
<p>&#8220;The conditions today are perfect for buyers. We have a surplus of homes on the market&#8221;</p>
<p>(perfect to wait&#8230; not only is there a 5 figure surplus, but your own stats show its getting worse. Oh, conditions are perfect for buyers&#8230; perfect to wait for a year for the wheels to come off this mess. Or do what Ed want&#8230; buy into a surplus market before the price drops&#8230; good one)</p>
<p>&#8220;A professional REALTOR(R) understands what is going<br />
on in the market and can help the buyer make an informed buying decision&#8221;</p>
<p>(that&#8217;s right&#8230; buy now, buy tomorrow, buy yesterday, buy again, buy, buy, buy, buy&#8230; great professional help)</p>
<p>&#8220;The Calgary Real Estate Board is a professional body of 5,752 licensed brokers and registered associates&#8221;</p>
<p>(Over 5000? Wow&#8230; I guess we have to continue buying at any price, at any stage of the cycle, or these folks won&#8217;t have a pot to piss in).</p>
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		<title>By: Keith in Calgary</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2008/06/03/cowtown-blues/comment-page-2/#comment-1738</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith in Calgary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 17:34:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=253#comment-1738</guid>
		<description>Curious.....

At the time IIRC CMHC could only pursue for a deficiency balance on a mortgage if it went thru foreclosure and was insured by them.

Quit claims and uninsured mortgages did not have the personal covenant you could pursue. That has not changed AFAIK.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Curious&#8230;..</p>
<p>At the time IIRC CMHC could only pursue for a deficiency balance on a mortgage if it went thru foreclosure and was insured by them.</p>
<p>Quit claims and uninsured mortgages did not have the personal covenant you could pursue. That has not changed AFAIK.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave in Calgary</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2008/06/03/cowtown-blues/comment-page-2/#comment-1723</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave in Calgary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 04:40:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=253#comment-1723</guid>
		<description>TrueGritCalgary

I am an avid walker, runner, biker, and I commute to work via foot, and I can tell you that in:

In Killarney, Glengarry, Sunalta, Canaught, Bankview, Knob Hill, and Scarburo 

There are an average of about 3 for sale signs per 1 block length of street, and &quot;price reduced&quot; signs outnumber &quot;sold&quot; ones.


And for anyone who doesn&#039;t know, these are saught after areas in the SW, close to downtown with easy access to everything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TrueGritCalgary</p>
<p>I am an avid walker, runner, biker, and I commute to work via foot, and I can tell you that in:</p>
<p>In Killarney, Glengarry, Sunalta, Canaught, Bankview, Knob Hill, and Scarburo </p>
<p>There are an average of about 3 for sale signs per 1 block length of street, and &#8220;price reduced&#8221; signs outnumber &#8220;sold&#8221; ones.</p>
<p>And for anyone who doesn&#8217;t know, these are saught after areas in the SW, close to downtown with easy access to everything.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2008/06/03/cowtown-blues/comment-page-2/#comment-1721</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 03:06:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=253#comment-1721</guid>
		<description>The real potential problem is that that anyone contemplating buying a home in Calgary will be paying to high a price for a house that will see strong deflationary house pressure. The risk of having an upside down mortgage with little prospect of unrealised inflationary gains to give them comfort. This is not the classic scenario of a simple buyers market.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The real potential problem is that that anyone contemplating buying a home in Calgary will be paying to high a price for a house that will see strong deflationary house pressure. The risk of having an upside down mortgage with little prospect of unrealised inflationary gains to give them comfort. This is not the classic scenario of a simple buyers market.</p>
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		<title>By: peng</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2008/06/03/cowtown-blues/comment-page-2/#comment-1718</link>
		<dc:creator>peng</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 22:57:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=253#comment-1718</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s A Terrible Time To Buy:
http://patrick.net/housing/crash.html

Who disagrees that house prices will continue to fall?: http://patrick.net/housing/crash2.html

What are their arguments?:
http://patrick.net/housing/crash3.html

What should you pay for a house?:
http://patrick.net/housing/prices.html

&quot;So what should I do?&quot;
Don&#039;t take financial advice from realtors, lenders, mortgage brokers, or anyone else who gets paid only if they convince you to buy. Put in your own numbers and calculate what it would really cost you to own rather than to rent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s A Terrible Time To Buy:<br />
<a href="http://patrick.net/housing/crash.html" rel="nofollow">http://patrick.net/housing/crash.html</a></p>
<p>Who disagrees that house prices will continue to fall?: <a href="http://patrick.net/housing/crash2.html" rel="nofollow">http://patrick.net/housing/crash2.html</a></p>
<p>What are their arguments?:<br />
<a href="http://patrick.net/housing/crash3.html" rel="nofollow">http://patrick.net/housing/crash3.html</a></p>
<p>What should you pay for a house?:<br />
<a href="http://patrick.net/housing/prices.html" rel="nofollow">http://patrick.net/housing/prices.html</a></p>
<p>&#8220;So what should I do?&#8221;<br />
Don&#8217;t take financial advice from realtors, lenders, mortgage brokers, or anyone else who gets paid only if they convince you to buy. Put in your own numbers and calculate what it would really cost you to own rather than to rent.</p>
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		<title>By: nonplused</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2008/06/03/cowtown-blues/comment-page-2/#comment-1714</link>
		<dc:creator>nonplused</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 22:40:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=253#comment-1714</guid>
		<description>There isn&#039;t much of a foreclosure problem in Canada yet, and I say yet because there will be.  If we look south for a model, the foreclosures didn&#039;t start rising until prices flatlined.  This is because in a rising market you can sell rather than get foreclosed.  However once the market stops rising the foreclosures give it the bump over the ledge.

Where I believe the push will come from in Calgary is people upgrading to new homes.  Now get this:  In Calgary for the last 4 years it was a huge risk to sell your old house based on the promised delivery date of your new house by the builder.  Builders were 3, 6, and 9 months behind schedule and offered no appologies.  Plus anyway prices were rising.  So rather than be outdoors, the motto was &quot;don&#039;t list until you have possession of the new house&quot;.  It was safer and you stood to make money anyway.

Well, the builders are starting to catch up.  I have 2 friends myself that have possession of thier new house now, 2 shinny mortgages, and they can&#039;t unload the old house.  Of course the thought of cutting the ask price is still far from thier minds and it will stay that way because the ask price was somewhat baked in to what they paid for the new house.  But eventually the burden of paying 2 mortgages is going to catch up with a few of these new home buyers.

I was looking at a house I was interested in.  The owners have built a new McMansion and want to sell the old one.  They paid $350,000 in 2000.  They listed it for $820,000 and recently relisted for $800,000.  I wish them luck because if I put the same money in bonds I can rent a similar property indefinately just on the interest.

But what I guess few are considering is that once the first seller throws in the towel, the drop will be rapid.  This is because even a 30% correction (read &quot;drop&quot;) in house prices will still leave most people in Calgary with a well above inflation rate gains on thier house.  They won&#039;t loose money, just make less.  For example the $800,000 house would sell for $560,000 and the sellers will still have a $210,000 profit in 8 years.  That&#039;s about a 6% annual return tax free, which is better than most investments.  And that&#039;s after a 30% drop!

Look out below I say.  And most people will still be well in the money.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There isn&#8217;t much of a foreclosure problem in Canada yet, and I say yet because there will be.  If we look south for a model, the foreclosures didn&#8217;t start rising until prices flatlined.  This is because in a rising market you can sell rather than get foreclosed.  However once the market stops rising the foreclosures give it the bump over the ledge.</p>
<p>Where I believe the push will come from in Calgary is people upgrading to new homes.  Now get this:  In Calgary for the last 4 years it was a huge risk to sell your old house based on the promised delivery date of your new house by the builder.  Builders were 3, 6, and 9 months behind schedule and offered no appologies.  Plus anyway prices were rising.  So rather than be outdoors, the motto was &#8220;don&#8217;t list until you have possession of the new house&#8221;.  It was safer and you stood to make money anyway.</p>
<p>Well, the builders are starting to catch up.  I have 2 friends myself that have possession of thier new house now, 2 shinny mortgages, and they can&#8217;t unload the old house.  Of course the thought of cutting the ask price is still far from thier minds and it will stay that way because the ask price was somewhat baked in to what they paid for the new house.  But eventually the burden of paying 2 mortgages is going to catch up with a few of these new home buyers.</p>
<p>I was looking at a house I was interested in.  The owners have built a new McMansion and want to sell the old one.  They paid $350,000 in 2000.  They listed it for $820,000 and recently relisted for $800,000.  I wish them luck because if I put the same money in bonds I can rent a similar property indefinately just on the interest.</p>
<p>But what I guess few are considering is that once the first seller throws in the towel, the drop will be rapid.  This is because even a 30% correction (read &#8220;drop&#8221;) in house prices will still leave most people in Calgary with a well above inflation rate gains on thier house.  They won&#8217;t loose money, just make less.  For example the $800,000 house would sell for $560,000 and the sellers will still have a $210,000 profit in 8 years.  That&#8217;s about a 6% annual return tax free, which is better than most investments.  And that&#8217;s after a 30% drop!</p>
<p>Look out below I say.  And most people will still be well in the money.</p>
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		<title>By: TrueGritCalgary</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2008/06/03/cowtown-blues/comment-page-2/#comment-1707</link>
		<dc:creator>TrueGritCalgary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 19:44:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=253#comment-1707</guid>
		<description>I am just wondering, in my observations, it seems that it has been about a month since I last saw a new &quot;sold&quot; sign out here in Chestermere. What about the rest of you guys in and around the Calgary area, has this been your experience too?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am just wondering, in my observations, it seems that it has been about a month since I last saw a new &#8220;sold&#8221; sign out here in Chestermere. What about the rest of you guys in and around the Calgary area, has this been your experience too?</p>
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